Blue post, can enchant 2 upgrade our current gear!

Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/4/13 07:43 AM #1
Posts: 323

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9792930202#4
AND
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9792930202#13

Here is the content of the posts. The blue post (Grimiku) is in bold.

Does anyone know if you can upgrade your item levels with the Mystic?

Reason I ask is because I'm sure that some people (myself included) have legendaries that they are very happy with the effects on but that we don't particularly want to have to re-hunt for new versions at level 70 (specifically skill cost reduction gear, cause -19 Meteor cost is hard to get).

This is a great question, and I have an answer that might make some of you happy. Right now, we're currently looking at having it so that when you re-roll an affix through Enchanting, the new roll is based on your character level. So, you could re-roll a core stat (as an example) on a lower-level item, and make that item a lot more appealing to a higher level character. This will allow you to continue to use gear that you're otherwise outgrowing, and help extend the life on some of those awesome items.

Enchanting is still a work in progress, though, so some of these details might change.



I understand that you can re-roll an affix. But can base armour and base weapon damage be re-rolled as well?

A lot of the details regarding Enchanting are still being finalized, and we'll be sure to share more information about it as time goes on. We know there are a lot of questions (like this) to be discussed, and we look forward to talking more about it when we can.
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/4/13 09:01 AM #2
Posts: 1059

How many ilvl l50 items would you use with alvl 63 affixes, but ilvl 50 base damage or armor? We don't even use ilvl 62 items right now and they roll with alvl 63 affixes. If you can enchant the base damage or armor then there's no reason to search for better items so that seems like a really bad idea. The dps examples in their presentation were over 3,000 dps. Three Thousand. That awesome 1400 dps Echoing Fury you have right now is worthless no matter what affixes you upgrade on it.

The big question is whether you can re-roll the damage affixes. If you can re-roll once, I think it would be awesome. If you can keep re-rolling, then it could be too powerful.

The lack of understanding of the alvl mechanics is a little annoying. The poster says a -19 Meteor is hard to find. At alvl 73, those will probably stretch to -30 Meteor or lower. A -19 Meteor is going to suck so bad, you won't even pick it up.
Posted by Member nuhertz on 9/4/13 09:42 AM #3
Posts: 512

I can roll a Leoric's Signet with 150+ str? I can see how I might use that.....

Likely a good solution for those low level items with unique properties.
Posted by Member tsukiyomi on 9/4/13 10:30 AM #4
Posts: 114

One thing I'm a bit unclear on, when you re-roll an affix like say crit chance on an item, does it re-roll that same attribute but with a new value or could you end up with a different attribute as well?

I'd love to be able to re-roll the crit chance on my amulet and crit damage on my gloves but not if it means I might end up with something like dex instead.
Posted by Admin Anuiran on 9/4/13 01:49 PM #5
Posts: 931

Posted by nuhertz at 09/04/2013 09:42 AM

I can roll a Leoric's Signet with 150+ str? I can see how I might use that.....

Likely a good solution for those low level items with unique properties.


All legendary items will be able to drop at level 70. They will already be scaled up, so expect Leoric Signet's coming with 400 str.

Posted by tsukiyomi at 09/04/2013 10:30 AM

One thing I'm a bit unclear on, when you re-roll an affix like say crit chance on an item, does it re-roll that same attribute but with a new value or could you end up with a different attribute as well?

I'd love to be able to re-roll the crit chance on my amulet and crit damage on my gloves but not if it means I might end up with something like dex instead.


A couple months ago Blizzard stated that you would be able to choose the stat you want.
Posted by Member tsukiyomi on 9/4/13 02:45 PM #6
Posts: 114

Posted by Anuiran at 09/04/2013 01:49 PM

A couple months ago Blizzard stated that you would be able to choose the stat you want.


Wait...so you can choose any stat you want to replace any stat? That seems a bit broken.
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 07:15 AM #7
Posts: 323

Here is the most details we have heard about enchanting so far:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9882178291#2

The way enchanting works right now (which, bear in mind, may change as we continue internal testing and receive feedback) is that you'd get to choose which affix you re-roll. So the process would be something like: visit Mystic --> select affix to re-roll --> get randomly-generated list of new affixes --> chose single affix from list --> pay material cost --> old affix replaced with new affix --> profit. The plan, at the moment at least, is to make an item account-bound if it's enchanted.

We're still tinkering with the actual costs and mechanics, as well as some remaining niggly details (like can you re-roll the same affix over and over? should the costs scale with each affix you re-roll? if yes, how much? etc) which is why we haven't done a grand reveal of the Mystic just yet.
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 07:16 AM #8
Posts: 323

About that "randomly generated list of new affixes" part...

I bet that if the affix that you want is not in the randomly generated list you can just cancel the enchanting process, start over and get a new randomly generated list.
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/5/13 09:48 AM #9
Posts: 1059

@mentok1982 wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having that mechanic there in the first place? I agree that's what it sounds like, but why make it a randomly generate list of new affixes to choose? It seems like a colossal waste of time.

Given that a question they're still debating is whether you can re-roll the same affix, it appears this is only meant to be a last-gasp opportunity to make an almost-great item into a great item.

I'm going to need approximately 20 more stash pages for the expansion.
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/5/13 10:23 AM #10
Posts: 1059

So what does enchanting do to the AH economy? In a reroll-many game, near-hit items are now worth purchasing, but since they can be resold, they'll never reach elite prices. Since near-hit items would be identical dps-wise to their "natural" equivalent, how will the value change for those items since they can be resold? The near-hit items will be constantly, permanently removed from the economy so they'll always be in demand and will always sell. there will also be up to 15 times as many viable items since near-hits will be much, much more common than the "natural" trifecta drops. So the velocity should be tremendous on those items. They'll be much easier for noobs to sell which is an impossible situation right now as there's no source of income for a new player to advance in the auction house.

I think the same churn will happen in a reroll-once game, but the value will be much lower since they're all universal gambles instead of "eventually this will be a BiS item." It also seems like there could be some RMAH -> GAH arbitrage opportunities. People would be reluctant to gamble real dollars, but would have no problem gambling Gold. Gold isn't real! There will likely be opportunities for profit to pick up items on the RMAH and resell them on the GAH for a much better rate than the strict Gold / USD price.

Enchanting will have a very interesting impact on the economy, especially if they require high-quality gems. I really, really hope they have the AH firmly in mind as they make these decisions. We saw the consequences of not taking it into account upon original release and it wasn't pretty. Learned their lesson?
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 11:05 AM #11
Posts: 323

Posted by ecocd at 09/05/2013 09:48 AM

@mentok1982 wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having that mechanic there in the first place? I agree that's what it sounds like, but why make it a randomly generate list of new affixes to choose? It seems like a colossal waste of time.

This may sound simple and silly but I think it may be a space issue. On the enchant screen they will only have enough space to list X many affixes which means they can't show them all. If you can't show them all all yet you want people to be able select any of the affixes, then I guess that means you randomly display affixes and you let people cancel if they don't see the one they want.


Will items that have been enchanted be account bound or am I making that up? If that is true, the market for almost-godly items will be HUGE. You will see threads in the forums that read:
WTS Mempo that needs crit! BIN 2 billion

Mempos that drop with crit chance will still be worth more because whoever owns it can sell it with natural crit chance when they don't need or want it anymore. Plus when you buy a mempo that needs crit chance you are not sure if the enchantment will give you 3 or 6% crit chance.
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/5/13 11:33 AM #12
Posts: 1059

@mentok1982, but the quantity of items is going to go up dramatically. Every Legendary that has only 1 random property (nearly all of the best) will be almost-godly if you can select the stat you want to reroll. Every single Mempo is now almost-Godly since they only need crit. The only thing that's going to separate nearly the 95% of non-natural-CC Mempos is their static affix rolls. While there's a difference between 8% IAS/171 Str and 9% IAS/199 Str, there isn't much difference. Any given Legendary will be much less common in Loot 2.0 since there will be so many potential Legendary drops in each gear slot, but every single Mempo is going to be a CC Mempo.

In the case of weapons, there's still going to be a large difference in the dps due to their damage mod ranges being so wide, but all 1 random property Legendary armor piece will automatically be equivalent to a best-possible drop. Every IK Helm is going to be a Str/Vit IK Helm. There will be some variation on Inna's Radiance since it has 2 random properties, but every Radiance will be an AR + 1 Random Property Radiance. Every Nat's Reflection only needs to roll either CD or CC on it's 3 random properties to make it a de facto trifecta Nat's Reflection. The quantity of perfect Legendaries will skyrocket.

They had better find a way to replace CC Mempos as BiS for practically every character or they're going to be even more ubiquitous than they are now.
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 12:11 PM #13
Posts: 323

I need a legendary helm that can have 342 life per second, attack speed and some crit chance. Right now, that helm does not exist.
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 01:36 PM #14
Posts: 323

Update on the random affixes issue!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9882178291?page=3#50


Exactly how re-rolling properties on Legendaries work is likely to change before we're done, so we shouldn't get into too much detail yet there. That said, consider the point taken that being able to go from a "special" property to a "normal" one as a one-way operation without ever being able to return would be less than desirable.

One small correction to what Lylirra said earlier. You pay the costs before you see the randomly generated enchanting options.


So you have to pay a price before you get to choose a random affix. They are not as dumb as we thought.
Posted by Member mentok1982 on 9/5/13 01:53 PM #15
Posts: 323

And then there is this:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9882178291?page=3#41

There still needs to be an element of "random" involved as well as limitations for this system to work. Otherwise literally every single person would be running around with godly gear in no time.

Random element: the list of replacement stats.
Limitation: The cost and/or amount of re-rolls we can perform.

The Mystic should and will be a supplementary factor of itemization, not something that replaces the actual hunt for loot aka the whole name of the game.


This is spot on.

We are still iterating heavily on the system, so the exact details may vary from what we talk about today, so let's talk about our values. By focusing on our design values, even if the exact implementation changes, you''ll be able to see our intent and what's important to us. Here are some of our design values for enchanting:

Value: It's important for the actual hunt for the loot to still matter
How enchanting supports this: As currently designed, you are only allowed to reroll ONE property on an item. In this way, each item can only be changed so much from it's original state. This allows enchanting to feel meaningful, while still allowing lots of room for players to resume hunting for an even better "base item" to enchant into an even better item.

Value: We want this to be a meaningful end-game sink
How enchanting supports this:
1. As previously mentioned, all items that are enchanted will be bound to account
2. Even though you are allowed to reroll only ONE property, you can reroll that property over and over. For example, suppose an item has 200 str, 200 vit, 80 res all, +1200 Life on Kill and +400 Life on Hit. You might choose to reroll the +1200 Life on Kill and get +87 Hitpoints per second. You can then reroll the +87 Hitpoints per second and get +4 gold pickup radius. You can reroll the "mutable" stat as many times as you want, but the other 4 stats (200 str, 200 vit, 80 res all and +400 Life on Hit) are now "locked in" and cannot be rerolled.
3. We want to ensure enchanting is meaningful on Legendary items. We are working hard to make sure Legendary items are awesome. If we want enchanting to be a meaningful end-game sink, it needs to work on the best items in the game. It has not yet been determined whether this means you can enchant the "guaranteed" properties of a Legendary, or if you can only reroll the "random" properties of a Legendary. This aspect of the design is still under iteration but at the end of the day we want enchanting Legendary items to be worthwhile.

Value: We want to avoid "Buyer's Remorse"
How enchanting supports this: Have you ever played an RPG with an enchanting system that sometimes randomly made the item worse? Since we're allowing the result to be random, it's possible that your choices for enchanting are worse than the property you're replacing. Oftentimes this can lead to a feeling of dread when you begin the enchanting process. Or maybe you re-enchant the item over and over hoping to at least get something better than what you started but you get unlucky and run out of money or reagents before you get a good roll! To mitigate this, when we present you the list of options one of the options is ALWAYS the original property. So if you don't like the new options you can always choose to keep the old one. Now you can enchant with peace-of-mind.

Standard disclaimer. Enchanting is a work-in-progress. Expect it to change before it's done, but this is a glimpse at the current state.
Posted by Member tsukiyomi on 9/5/13 02:26 PM #16
Posts: 114

Ok that sounds a bit better, you can only re-roll a single stat and its random. That will at least make it so the gear has to be decent before it can be made godly.

If you could easily make trash into top tier items it wouldn't make sense to farm for items anymore.
Posted by Member Bort on 9/6/13 04:35 AM #17
Posts: 542

But this doesn't really change the points @ecocd raised. Most of the BiS legendaries currently in use only have 1 random stat. And it's pretty much that 1 random value that changes an item from being junk to godly.


This is a very fine line they are trying to walk on.
If enchanting isn't good enough people will simply not use it. (Look at crafting today. Except for the account bound recipies and maybe some choice legendaries nobody crafts normal items)
If they make it too good everyone will be in total OP gear in very short time, and as soon as everyone is special, no one is special. ;)
Posted by Member Mehsiah on 9/6/13 07:14 AM #18
Posts: 248

Im waiting til Blizzcon for all this stuff. More answers then.
Posted by Member ninjax on 9/8/13 09:51 AM #19
Posts: 600

I expect the crafting costs and material costs will be a lot different to what we currently have to stop everyone instantly having OP gears. They talked about having specific drops from certain bosses, so it's possible a required matt may only drop very rarely from a specific boss or combo of bosses.. perhaps something to this effect.
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/9/13 06:10 AM #20
Posts: 1059

By the same right, they've said they didn't like the idea of people grinding Baal and/or Mephisto so I find it hard to believe specific boss drops will be particularly valuable. I think they're going to be more like collectibles than vital mats. Could you imagine if the Siegebreaker carried a mat to make a Skorn or Echoing Fury? No one would be doing anything else.

I could see maybe the Key Warden set up when you have to get drops from 4-10 bosses or something, but I know I would lose interest quickly if we all just ended up doing Azruglefted runs endlessly.
Posted by Member eastdragon42 on 9/10/13 07:29 AM #21
Posts: 407

Posted by ecocd at 09/04/2013 09:01 AM


The big question is whether you can re-roll the damage affixes. If you can re-roll once, I think it would be awesome. If you can keep re-rolling, then it could be too powerful.


If you could re-roll the damage affix, that would indeed be awesome. Cause then maybe you could get a trifecta Natalya's Slayer & actually make it into a useful weapon... :-)
Posted by Member ecocd on 9/10/13 01:22 PM #22
Posts: 1059

Posted by eastdragon42 at 09/10/2013 07:29 AM

Posted by ecocd at 09/04/2013 09:01 AM


The big question is whether you can re-roll the damage affixes. If you can re-roll once, I think it would be awesome. If you can keep re-rolling, then it could be too powerful.


If you could re-roll the damage affix, that would indeed be awesome. Cause then maybe you could get a trifecta Natalya's Slayer & actually make it into a useful weapon... :-)

Unfortunately, the cold damage is a static Legendary affix which means it isn't enchantable. Even having it drop as an ilvl 73 version won't help, because cold damage has a lower max range than all other types of damage. Sadly, Nat's Slayer will always be worthless.

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