Ok so I've seen the numbers, been on d3rawr and tried to understand but i just can't seem to get it.



I don't get how SOJ is better for me than another rare ring with higher stats. i know it's for elites - but that extra 29% is only good for elites. Where as the in comparison the extra 20% on top of that for my ring of 49% is ALL the time. So how does going down 20% CD work better for me when i'm against elites. I'm still technically doing less damage. A piss load less damage looking at those stats.
On d3rawr it shows a lot more damage for elites.... but i just don't get it.

I just can't get my head around this.

Can someone help me understand so i'm not so hesitant in investing in a good cold one and actually equipping it please?

SoJ is not always good.

Say:

Without SoJ my paper DPS is 200k.
With SoJ 30% elite my paper DPS is 170k (ie vs elite is 221%), without taking into account any additional skill boosting dmg.

Why player use DPS. Two things. First is because in a farming sweet spot, usually elites are the one which take longer time to kill. So in my example above, I can still one shot white mob whether it is 170k or 200k DPS, while vs elite 221k DPS can make the elite killed faster compared to 200k, hence maybe a few seconds saved per elite pack. From my example SoJ doesn't work for every one, it depends on the base DPS and the ring that has been replaced.

Second thing is resource management, eg for 2h monk perma TR build, additional spirit regen would be nice. Sometimes it just miss that couple of spirit regen for perma rush.

Just how I understand it.

Adding onto what @douvinsky said:

The normal ring gives CD 49%. So this means if and when you crit, you do 49% more damage.
The SOJ on the other hand increases ALL damage against elites. So critical hits and normal hits do more damage.
So you can't compare the 49% CD of a normal ring with the elite % of an SOJ directly like you did.
The higher your crit chance, the more the 49% CD is worth.

That being said, I also think that SOJ's value is overstated. It greately depends on how/when you plan to use it as already mentioned.

For example if you plan to do UBER runs, then SOJ will probably be better. But if you plan to do large area farming, and you actually want to kill white mobs the SOJ may not be better at all.


Also the SOJ's 6% elemental (holy) damage is added to black damage. So once again this will be worth more or less depending on the weapon you use. If you search around a bit on the forums here you will find some very detailed discussions on black damage vs. elemental damage.
But once again, this 6% damage is added all the time, not just when you crit.

Oh ya Bort has the answer which address your concern on the CD. I sort of missed that part.

I'd type up a long response to this, but Bort and Douvinsky (as usual :P) did that already so I'll just say: D3up whatever you're not sure about. The very top end rings will almost always be better than a Stone of Jordan, if not always period. But it never hurts to check out your actual effective DPS on D3up to be sure.

Thanks all. That helps a lot and clears things up for me.
Especially the elemental damage..... I thought you had to have that specific elemental/holy dmg already.
Based on its wording of "Adds 6% TO Holy Damage"........ It would be clearer to me if it simply said adds 6% Holy damage.

Thanks again.

Posted by NightCrawler9 at 07/19/2013 12:28 PM

I'd type up a long response to this, but Bort and Douvinsky (as usual :P) did that already so I'll just say: D3up whatever you're not sure about. The very top end rings will almost always be better than a Stone of Jordan, if not always period. But it never hurts to check out your actual effective DPS on D3up to be sure.

I sometimes use D3up, but I was under the impression that it tries to calculate your damage the same way as what is displayed on your "sheet" damage on the info hero info tab in the game; which I thought still didn't take into account the bonuses for black weapon damage (such as the +5~6% on a SoJ, or for that matter, even the +6~7% on an Inna's Favor) when performing its calculations...no?

Also, if using (for example) a Calamity, it doesn't take into account the potential bonus 12% for when Marked for Death has been activated either, does it? Nor does it check your primary/secondary skills & take into account if you have bonus damage from a piece of equipment (such as a 14% Hungering Arrow bonus damage on a DML or a 7% Spike Trap bonus on a Natalya's Embrace), correct?

Posted by eastdragon42 at 07/21/2013 08:14 PM

Nor does it check your primary/secondary skills...

The in-game one definitely takes some skill damage into account. Maybe just passives? Because I'm sure I have seen my number change after selecting new skills on some of my chars.

Another odd thing, my Barb has no primary attack. I use Hammer of the Ancients as my primary attack. So I have no idea what my actual DPS number is, since hammer does 325% damage.

I just switch to my soj when hitting an elite, only takes a split second

hehe, back to MF gear swapping strategies then @ninjax. :)

hehe, that's what I'm *meant* to do... but often I forget and notice when vendoring I still have SOJ on.

shrug, Im a bubble away from p100 now so it doesn't really matter I'm not wearing hellfire ;)

I think for WW barb who tend to struggle with packs unless you have ridiculous dps it's a good option... or just dont kill them at all.

Posted by eastdragon42 at 07/21/2013 08:14 PM

I sometimes use D3up, but I was under the impression that it tries to calculate your damage the same way as what is displayed on your "sheet" damage on the info hero info tab in the game; which I thought still didn't take into account the bonuses for black weapon damage (such as the +5~6% on a SoJ, or for that matter, even the +6~7% on an Inna's Favor) when performing its calculations...no?

Also, if using (for example) a Calamity, it doesn't take into account the potential bonus 12% for when Marked for Death has been activated either, does it? Nor does it check your primary/secondary skills & take into account if you have bonus damage from a piece of equipment (such as a 14% Hungering Arrow bonus damage on a DML or a 7% Spike Trap bonus on a Natalya's Embrace), correct?

Yeah, it takes into account everything (Inna's, SoJ, etc...). It also takes into account Natalya's and Calamity. For Calamity there should be some check box to switch between an enemy being marked or not. As far as skill bonuses on Natalya's, you'll have to equip it on the site and go into the section where it lists your skills, their DPS, crit damage amount and other stuff. That's how I found out for sure that Grenades on Nat's cloak doesn't effect the Strafe rune that shoots grenades.