Hi everyone,

The equation for single wield damage is pretty straight-forward; if anyone has a question about that, feel free to PM me. I thought the dual wield damage is a bit more nebulous so I thought I would post the equation for anyone interested.

let X = (average damage from weapon 1 + average damage from weapon 2 + (average damage from items*2))
Y = (attack speed of weapon 1 * attack speed of weapon 2/(attack speed of weapon 1 + attack speed of weapon 2))

Multiply X and Y to get your damage modifier A

1+(primary/100) = primary modifier B
1.15+AS from any items = attack speed modifier C
1+(CC*CD/10000) = crit modifier D

Your damage is equal to A*B*C*D.

A couple things worth noting:
1) damage bonuses on rings/amulets are added to BOTH weapons. So as you can see, they're a lot more powerful than single wielding.
2) Echoing Fury has an interesting property where it says it adds +.22 attacks per second. This bonus actually applies to BOTH weapons. So the Fury is a mace (1.2 AS), but with the bonus, it hits at 1.42 AS (stated on the weapon). The off-hand, let's say it's also a mace, would say 1.2 AS but it ACTUALLY hits at 1.42 WITH THE SAME DAMAGE. So effectively, Echoing Fury just gave an 18.3% damage increase to your off-hand. This is pretty big.
3) The bonus AS from Enchantress will be added to the damage modifier, not your attack speed modifier. So let's say the AS is 1.4 from your weapon. You would just use 1.43 in the first equation; the third equation remains unchanged.

Anyway, hope this helps some monks/barbs. I was able to get my damage to nearly 60k unbuffed without hurting my survivability too much simply by figuring out where I could improve each modifier at reasonable AH prices.

Posted by Metta at 09/01/2012 11:54 PM

2) Echoing Fury has an interesting property where it says it adds +.22 attacks per second. This bonus actually applies to BOTH weapons. So the Fury is a mace (1.2 AS), but with the bonus, it hits at 1.42 AS (stated on the weapon). The off-hand, let's say it's also a mace, would say 1.2 AS but it ACTUALLY hits at 1.42 WITH THE SAME DAMAGE. So effectively, Echoing Fury just gave an 18.3% damage increase to your off-hand. This is pretty big.

Wow. That is massive, if anyone is looking for one of those, Buzzell has one to sell.

I want one now!

@zerokewl @buzzell is selling his toprange one at a very decent 8m

@gnawol @methrin, holy poopie. Still selling my Socketed Echoing Fury for 8-9m PM me.

@gnawol, thanks for trying to sell mine.

Saw it, but I need a Dex one...and about 10mil gold...

Nothing every seems to sell for me.

Doing out my damage equation right now, Can you explain adjustments for skill based affixes on weapons/armor. such as my 300th spear makes my weapon throw do 47% more damage. does that go on to the skill part, making the skill do 177% weapon damage, or does it actually just go to the damage that my weapon throw is doing?

Thanks!

@metta

@Buzzell

As far as I know, skill based bonuses add directly to the damage of the skill. So yeah, weapon throw doing 130% of weapon damage with the spear bonus will do 177% of weapon damage now. It's difficult to test this, but I'm almost positive this is how it works (at least since 1.04). Also, this bonus will not be included in the DPS display (it's hidden).

Another interesting property is found on things like Zunimassa's Trail, where it says "Adds 6% to Poison Damage" or something. This is kind of a misnomer; it doesn't add damage to your total Poison damage, IE, if you had no Poison damage, it would give you zero bonus. It actually turns that percentage of your physical damage into Poison and INCREASES it by that much. So, going back to our beloved Echoing Fury, that weapon is all physical damage. It would give a 6% damage bonus to your fury, which is pretty considerable.

Last note: if you are going to dual wield with the fury, try to find an off-hand that has a LOWER attack speed. Why is that? Because the DPS you see on a weapon is actually its real damage multiplied by its attack speed. Thus, a mace that says 850 dps actually hits harder than a sword that says 850 dps (it just hits slower). If we compare the percent increase of each (let's say fury gives .25 attacks per second):

Sword @ 850: 850/1.4 = 607
607*(1.4+.25) = 1001.8

Mace @ 850: 850/1.2 = 708
708*(1.2+.25) = 1027

25-26 damage seems piddly, but with the other modifiers, this is going to be 1000-2000 more damage overall. Even more depending on your current DPS. The mace does hit a little slower, which could be worse for cyclone proc or LOH, but I think the DPS bonus outweighs the minor AS decrease.

good call, I'm looking at getting a sky splitter for its magical uber regen powers, and thus ditching my three hundreth spear.

I just started Dual Wielding 1H crossbows today, because I didn't know Critical Damage stacked. Whoops. 200 hours and I finally learned how to play my Demon Hunter. I lost a lot of critical chance from my Quiver and hence my displayed dps actually went down about 8%, but 70% more critical damage is huge on Spike Traps' base 275% WD. Given Hunger Arrow's penetration chance, the critical hit chance on that skill in particular is actually 35% higher so that keeps my crit rate plenty high (it's 50% with Puncturing Arrow Rune - stupid that the clvl 6 Rune is the best for a clvl 60 DH, but whatever).

I had no idea damage from jewelry stacked on both weapons, but that makes sense. Going from single-wield to double-wield is going to pretty radically change my dps tables. This will require substantial investigation. Thank you so much @Metta! Time to rebuild my DH.

@ecocd

No prob! The AS bonus from dual-wielding is the same thing as the AS bonus from a quiver (assuming 15% attack speed). Since the 1-H crossbow can also have dex (same as quiver), the only real difference is the quiver will have CC while the crossbow can have CD. I don't really play a DH (have a really budget one), but I think the dual wield crossbow is the beta tier end game (the true end game being a dual socketed manticore). You find 2 crossbows with CD and a socket, obtain massive CD, and then try to stack moderate CC on other items. This will trump even strong single wield, 1 socketed 2 hand crossbows in overall dps.

@Metta That was pretty much my build beforehand, too, because I figured out pretty quickly that Critical Damage is cheap on the Auction House up to 65% which is the ilvl 62 cap. Anything more than that skyrockets in price.

That said, 1H crossbows can spawn with both Critical Hit Damage mod and a socket which means you can dual-wield a maximum of 400% critical hit damage and 10% Crit Chance with the Archery Passive. Dual-Socketed Manticore maxes out at 350% crit damage with the Archery passive and 10% Crit Chance from a Quiver. If you won't get more damage out of dual-wielding a perfect pair of 1H crossbows than a single dual-socketed Manitcore, it's certainly going to be more consistent given the attach speed differential.

Yes. The manticore will hit harder, but slower while the dual wield xbows will hit softer, but faster. I think manticores are still WAY over priced, especially those 2 socket ones. The absolute best ones though (natural CD, 2 sockets, 1200+ DPS) can't be matched by any 1H xbows, but those are like, what... hundreds of millions? The 1H xbows can be obtained for more "reasonable" prices.

I just discovered this 1 hander "Calamity". I haven't done the math, but 2 godly Calamitys might beat the manticore...

Calamity is, (un)fortunately Legendary which means you can't have 2 equipped at the same time. You could still have 1 Calamity and 1 godly 6-affix rare.

D'oh! Well, those uber rares are pretty much equal, I guess.