Posted by Member Metta on 1/16/13 02:14 PM
#1
Posts: 411
Just going to list a bunch of things without any cohesion:
1) They didn't scale damage. At all. What this means is that a crit even at moderate DPS will one shot almost anything. So it's pretty much a game of rock-paper-scissors. 2) Monks are pretty strong (Serenity-Seven Sided Strike), but they are far from the best. DH with the Legacy Nat's is pretty annoying (literally impossible to engage if they move well), but I wouldn't say the best either because their damage is hurt by the weaker Nat's set and they have to kill you from far away. The most unstoppable class I fought against was Witch Doctor. Why? Because they have a smokescreen ability (Spirit Walk) and they also have an undodgeable attack (Haunt). I fought against a pretty geared WD (70k+ HP, 800+ resist) who only had 100k DPS with a Skorn and he probably killed me about 10 times for every 1 time I killed him. He had enough HP to survive 1 crit, so he would just spirit walk and haunt me and I would just die. 3) Barbs are pretty much useless. Wizards a close second. When you don't have invincibility/invisibility in a game where 1 hit kills everything, you don't really have any chance. 4) Passives don't transfer from outside the arena into the arena, but your mana isn't restored. This is mostly an issue for monks who never have enough spirit to do anything. If you cast your Mantra outside, then come inside, you're going to be fighting with 50 less spirit. Kinda funny that they coded this mechanism into the arena (I don't think I've seen this happening anywhere else in the game), but they couldn't even add health globes when you kill someone... 5) Health/Armor/Resistance seems to matter a LITTLE BIT insofar as the ability to survive one crit. I do remember 1v1ing a Barb who had like 30k DPS, but like 150k HP and 9000 armor. I believe it took like 3 crits to kill him and he could just shrug off my regular hits. So it was certainly a better strategy than trying to outdps a monk who is, uh, invincible. HP below 50k seems irrelevant, at least to me, since you still die in 1 shot. Shields seem to make a big difference against regular attacks (staying in the lane pounding away on guys), but I haven't noticed any difference against crits. 6) With 4 people, the game is at least somewhat "entertaining". I would use a little bit of strategy to "snipe" kills, position myself to avoid attacks, and manage my CD. For example, even though a DH can be nearly invincible in a 1v1 situation, a 4 player FFA is different. I would often size the DH up and time my SSS when he reappeared from Smokescreen. A crit from that would ensure a 1 shot kill. I would wait until he engaged someone else and was pressured into smoke, then I would ignore the other guy and wait for the DH. Or something like watching two guys fight each other until they're nearly dead, then SSS into it and killing both of them. 7) I think the best way to determine who is "best" in PvP is to do something like a timed FFA (5 minutes or something). Then you just add up the kills of each player at the end. A barb in 1v1 would pretty much kill no one, but at least in 4 man FFA, he could snipe kills. 8) They could do a MYRIAD of things to make this way more fun. I'll just list some I've fantasized about: -SCALE DAMAGE -add maps -add more players or at least, spectators -make a record system that keeps track of stats -add game modes like team, CTF, domination, demolition (yeah I play CoD, big whoop, wanna fight about it?) -health/mana globes upon death -restore health/mana upon resurrection -add custom games like only blues, only whites, naked dueling, instagib |
PvP Thoughts/Facts
Posted by Member ecocd on 1/16/13 02:37 PM
#2
Posts: 1059
I think you'll get a lot of those changes and some of them in 1.0.7.
I think severely scaling or capping CD outright (+150%?) could potentially solve the damage problem on its own. I think they've already stated they'll be adding maps and we might even get them for 1.0.7. It would be pretty fun to add one with Inferno damage environment hazards like the Act 4 poison floor cracks or Act 1 Fire Vents. I think the health globe thing was a conscious decision so I'm not sure that will happen. The game modes and custom games are all but guaranteed to happen, but again not something that we'll necessarily see in 1.0.7. The blues-only and whites-only modes would drive revenue for Blizzard so that's practically guaranteed to happen. Speaking of which, would you be interested in joining an honor-system D3RMT White Gear Only dueling association? WGODA (WODA would be a slicker acronym, but "White Only Dueling Association" sounds incredibly racist). It would kind of suck having to spend time farming PTR for whites and have it all go away when things go live, but the concept is more appealing than traditional uber-gear dueling to me as I do not have Uber Gear. It could also be White Gear, Blue Jewelry Only to make things slightly more interesting. I do, however, have 20% IAS Exorcist that says my DH will be pretty nasty. |
Posted by Member douvinsky on 1/16/13 05:16 PM
#4
Posts: 1445
@Metta
I read your post with interest. I have not ventured into PvP, but I am glad that my two regular toons are Monk and DH. My skills are pretty bad, in WoW players killed me and /emote laughed at me. Maybe next time in our RMT group duels I can provide a little bit of entertainment to you guys. @ecocd I'll fight you naked. Careful when I make my special move and rub against something! |
Posted by Member razer22 on 1/16/13 07:25 PM
#5
Posts: 194
I'm interested in the WGODA, gonna add u guys.
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Posted by Member eastdragon42 on 1/16/13 09:51 PM
#6
Posts: 413
Or maybe they could do it like elite packs, where health globes are dropped when your opponent reaches 1/3 or 2/3 of their HPs..? Cause although it might be slightly useful in a 4v4, if you're in a 1v1 not having any health globes drop til your opponent is dead is kind of useless, right? :-) Just rambling here... |
Posted by Member douvinsky on 1/16/13 09:57 PM
#7
Posts: 1445
not having any health globes drop til your opponent is dead is kind of useless - opponent's gold piles/ items drop upon death! Your dead opponent will lose such gold and item. |
Posted by Member douvinsky on 1/16/13 10:10 PM
#8
Posts: 1445
@ecocd
For starting white armors, we could check the merchants, they sell quite some white armors (lvl50 ish). I logged into Bastion Keep and visited 3 merchants (excl. the repairing merchant). During my log in, one of the merchants have 4 white armors for sale. The others have 1-3 each, sometimes weapon. |
Posted by Member NightCrawler9 on 1/16/13 10:37 PM
#9
Posts: 444
I think the way some streamer does Azmodan challenges where you craft a set would be fun. Four people join in and craft themselves a gear set and see who wins.
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Posted by Member shniggies on 1/17/13 01:01 AM
#10
Posts: 909
+1 for this idea |
Posted by Member ninjax on 1/17/13 01:55 AM
#11
Posts: 600
kinda like the Cuckoo gaming guys "player vs player" which is a bit lol ? |
Posted by Member Khan on 1/20/13 04:39 PM
#12
Posts: 1195
Shields are back in style and we need a larger map. That is all.
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Posted by Member Metta on 1/25/13 02:01 PM
#13
Posts: 411
Tried my tank build on the PTR. It's definitely effective against other melee classes and it seems to help against 150-200k DPSers, but it breaks down against extreme DPS because crits still one shot.
Went up against this DH called "Myon" and he had absurd DPS. Like 500k unbuffed, 650k buffed. His gear was pretty insane, but one of the interesting things I noticed was that he put a Marquise Ruby in his Calamity socket. What this does is turn the weapon into a monster. He had a 1300+ dps Calamity (already really strong), but the Marquise Ruby adds +150 min/+150 max or effectively, +150 average damage to the weapon. The actual calculations are seemingly bizarre: it actually adds +300 damage to the maximum value and multiplies this by the +xx% damage value. So a Calamity with +49% damage actually receives +223.5-447, or 335.25 damage! With Calamity's 1.78 AS, this increases it by 597. This turns the 1300 DPS Calamity into a 1900 DPS one! Here's a link showing this: 422k to 477k DPS So with enough inherent dex and CD, I think a Marquise Ruby can supersede an Emerald because of the raw damage boost. But anyway, at 500k DPS, armor/resist/HP makes nearly no difference. I had about 100k HP, 700 AR, and 6000 armor and his regular attack would 2 shot me (I survived with maybe 10k hp). Impale/Crits were easily a 1 shot. With the DH ability to cloak as well as attack blindly at range (hungering arrow), they seem to be unbeatable. I believe SS can dodge Haunt also, so I really have no idea how any class could beat a high DPS DH. |
Posted by Member shniggies on 1/25/13 02:09 PM
#14
Posts: 909
very interesting findings... i can't find any public games whenever i'm on... can't duelz no body
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Posted by Member ecocd on 1/25/13 09:39 PM
#16
Posts: 1059
I tracked down the reason behind the crazy DPS increase and it's mostly because of the existing MinMax damage bug on black damage weapons. I posted a full explanation in a more appropriate D3RMT thread here.
The developers have said they don't intend to fix the bug, but they're probably going to have to either do that or nerf the Ruby changes. Nerf the Ruby changes and they're worthless on non-black damage weapons. Don't nerf the Ruby changes and you turn 15 million Gold weapons into 250 million Gold weapons. Fix the bug and you've decreased the dps on millions of black damage weapons overnight. Pick your poison, Blizzard. P.S., Echoing Fury is black damage, so they'll see the same obscene dps bumps from Rubies. |
10 users posted in this thread: Buzzell, douvinsky, eastdragon42, ecocd, Khan, Metta, NightCrawler9, ninjax, razer22, shniggies