Over at bnet

Has discussion of the black weapon damage bug and how rubies are tweaked to not perpetuate that bug.

Also, the current buffs to higher tier rubies are as follows on the PTR:

Radiant Square Rubies, Star Rubies, Flawless Star Rubies, Perfect Star Rubies, and Radiant Star Rubies have had their weapon bonuses increased (these changes will apply to both existing rubies, as well as new rubies):

Radiant Square Ruby: +40 minimum damage/+40 maximum damage (up from +16/+16)
Star Ruby: +60 minimum damage/+60 maximum damage (up from +17/+17)
Flawless Star Ruby: +80 minimum damage/+80 maximum damage (up from +18/+18)
Perfect Star Ruby: +100 minimum damage/+100 maximum damage (up from +19/+19)
Radiant Star Ruby: +120 minimum damage/+120 maximum damage (up from +20/+20)

Yeah, I figured the awesome damage wouldn't last long given the abuse it was getting in PTR. The lessons of wizard fight club are a distant memory apparently...

On a plus note, we can use Vanishing Dye on Legendaries now. :-)

i dont get it... hasn't the dmg been increased? i didn't read the bnet thread just fyi

@shniggies Yeah, the quoted part says they are ramping up ruby damage for gem tiers 9-14 to better coincide with the marquise ruby.

However, the concise version of the bnet post mentions that they still have no plans to "fix" black damage weapons that are calculating DPS incorrectly, but they have fixed how rubies behave when socketed in these weapons.

It's a bit confusing, but basically before this latest PTR patch, rubies were more potent in black damage weapons than elemental damage weapons. That aspect has since been fixed with the latest patch.

I tossed a Radiant Star Ruby on a great black damage Rare 1H XBow and saw an enormous increase in dps such that even calculated correctly, it's a huge improvement in dps. It appears that the +120/+120 from the Ruby takes % Damage into account. A +40% damage weapon will be getting +156/+156 out of the Ruby while a +20% damage weapon will only be getting +144/+144. It's not a big difference, but now there's at least a small reason to pay attention to whether damage is coming from +Damage or +%Damage.

When completely geared for my DH Sentry build (all Dex, IAS no emphasis on CC/CD), a RS Ruby provided about 15% more dps than a RS Emerald. In my Manticore for my MP0 farming (balanced Dex/IAS/CC/CD), the RS Emerald showed about 5% more dps than RS Ruby. For my builds, it looks like they hit a very good balance as I have a reason to use both a RS Ruby and a RS Emerald.

i think the +120 is a great improvement over the current +20

wheres the nerf?

@shniggies, My post on the MinMaxDamage Bug. Making Rubies not follow traditional MinMaxDamage calculations is an enormous nerf to their effect on black weapons.

New minor update

We’ve been listening to your feedback, and we agree it’s weird for different rubies to function differently, especially if it’s hard to tell the difference. Based on this, we’ve decided that going forward, all rubies will use the new calculation, and we’ll be buffing all rubies to account for the difference in calculation. We’re still in the process of evaluating what we want the final numbers to be for patch 1.0.7 once it goes live, but our design philosophy remains that some but not all builds should prefer using rubies in the weapon slot.

They previously had all Rubies below Flawless Square continue to use the MinMaxDamage bug. I agree with everyone that was pretty stupid.

Now all they have to do is change topaz from thorn damage and have higher level gems drop on higher MP levels and the jewel crafting system will be much more tolerable....oh and the 1 click forging would be awesome, not having to spend half an hour clicking to make a gem seems like a no brainer.

Posted by ecocd at 01/31/2013 01:47 PM

@shniggies, My post on the MinMaxDamage Bug. Making Rubies not follow traditional MinMaxDamage calculations is an enormous nerf to their effect on black weapons.

let me read your post, cuz i'm still thinking that +120 to both min/max is huge
sorry for being such a noob

edit:
ok i read your post, and i understand the bug and why it makes a difference
thanks!

Posted by tsukiyomi at 01/31/2013 04:26 PM

Now all they have to do is change topaz from thorn damage.

What are you talking about? The increased the Thorns damage on the Marquise Topazes to 2500! [/ sarcasm]

Seriously, though, what were they thinking when they made that change? Were they trolling us? Is there some secret Thorns build that's killing PvP? I believe the theoretical highest Thorns damage you can have is 21,444 if you have a 2-socketed Manticore with 2 Marquise Topazes. I don't see how even 20k Thorns would do much to PvP.

Edit: I forgot about the bonus on Cindercoat so it's actually around 24,000 max.

Wouldn't they have to push it literally to 20,000 Thorns damage before some melee classes would have to alter their strategy? Is it solely the 2-socketed Manticores that are keeping them from increasing it even more? (Man, they closed off so much design space when someone came up with the "brilliant" idea of a double-socketed weapon. I could buy the argument on a 2-handed weapon, but a Xbow? What were they thinking?)

Wonder if a barb using Tough as Nails with max thorns would actually work in PvP...

And getting maxed out on VIT while using Nerves of Steel.

I doubt ranged damage is reflected so it wouldn't be too effective until/unless they include 2-on-2 dueling to complement each other. In melee-on-melee it could be an automatic win against all but the highest CD opponents. Even at max Thorns on gear, you're looking at 36,000 damage reflection or about 18,000 after inherent melee and PvP damage reduction and then they apply their AR and Armor damage reduction. It isn't blockable and can't be dodged, but that's still something like only 2700 damage getting through per melee attack that lands in a best case scenario. I don't think the math is working out in your favor no matter how many EHP you have.

It's strange, though, that you want to actively avoid Dexterity on your gear or you would Dodge the attacks meant to kill your opponent in the first place.

I am, however, thinking about building a thorns PvE Wizard/WD that just runs around Normal or Nightmare with a socketed Grand Vizier or dual-socket Manitcore, life regen, and thorns and killing things by just getting hit.

Posted by Khan at 02/01/2013 07:24 AM

Wonder if a barb using Tough as Nails with max thorns would actually work in PvP...

Posted by Khan at 02/01/2013 07:25 AM

And getting maxed out on VIT while using Nerves of Steel.

That was the first build I tried with my barb, it did pretty poorly against the normal game, I can't imagine it would do that much better against real high level players.

Posted by tsukiyomi at 02/01/2013 11:23 AM

That was the first build I tried with my barb, it did pretty poorly against the normal game, I can't imagine it would do that much better against real high level players.

Can you define "normal game?" Were you trying to run Inferno Thorns?

i think "normal" = pvm? pve?

non pvp

New Rubies suck.

That is my carefully thought our reaction.

Posted by ecocd at 02/01/2013 07:27 PM

New Rubies suck.

That is my carefully thought our reaction.

lol, how come?
@baldy convinced me that they were going to spike in value so i bought a bunch.... bad idea?

Without the MinMaxDamage bug it's only characters in the extremely niche areas that can use them. My Sentry build, for instance, with only 20% CC still does almost as much damage from the Spike Traps as it does from 3 Sentries when I have an Emerald. The kill speed is almost unnoticeable with the current Radiant Star Ruby damage. It was worth using with the bugged damage going from an 1100 dps 1H XBow to 1550 dps, but not extremely so. Going from 1100 dps to 1400 dps with the current damage levels is barely noticeable.

With the bugged damage, my Sentry build was definitely Rubies and my Manticore Strafe Build was definitely Emeralds. Now my Sentry build is neutral to Rubies/Emeralds and my Manticore Strage Build uses Emerals.

I have a feeling they OP Barbs with the black damage Echoing Fury will probably screw everything for all of the other classes again and keep the Rubies around their current, all but worthless, levels. I'm getting really sick of Spin2Win Barbs dictating so many design decisions at this point.

Rubies will spike after the patch - gems always do - but their long-term value is going to be unchanged, because the only new use will be for ilvl 15 socketed weapons when leveling new characters. Whoopee.