Paragon System

Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 09:08 AM #1
Posts: 349

Just been posted up http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6968517/Introducing_the_Paragon_System-8_20_2012
Posted by Member Khan on 8/20/12 09:27 AM #2
Posts: 1195

Very nice! No mention if its retroactive. Probably not...
Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 09:33 AM #3
Posts: 349

Well, after reading that i'm sure the market will be flooded with MF gear at lower prices and high end gear will be up on the rise again in terms of price.

It doesn't make much sense wearing MF gear if you want to rip through mobs as fast as possible to level as fast as possible.

all in all, its a great new system and brings reason again for people to play the end-game grind again :-)
Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 09:42 AM #4
Posts: 349

Posted by gnawol at 08/20/2012 09:33 AM

Well, after reading that i'm sure the market will be flooded with MF gear at lower prices and high end gear will be up on the rise again in terms of price.

It doesn't make much sense wearing MF gear if you want to rip through mobs as fast as possible to level as fast as possible.

all in all, its a great new system and brings reason again for people to play the end-game grind again :-)


I might retract that statement, i see leveling to Paragon could take a blistering 6 months for some people, so MF prices won't change by the looks because MF swapping is still more feasible until you level up that far
Posted by Member ecocd on 8/20/12 09:50 AM #5
Posts: 1059

In summary:
-Paragon levels are earned after level 60 and work pretty much exactly like normal character levels in that you get a buff to your stats, but also gives you additional +3% GF, +3% MF. There are 100 Paragon levels and the experience requirements increase with each Paragon Level
-NV will remain the same as it is now, but will also grant a +15% experience bonus per stack of NV
-MF and GF from gear and Paragon Levels will be capped at 300%, but NV will still stack on top of that for a max possible MF/GF of +375%
-There will be no change to current MF-swapping, but who would bother to swap to get from a natural 225% MF to 295% MF, anyway?
-No word on whether Paragon Levels will be rewarded retroactively

I imagine by PLvl 99, it will take tens or hundreds of hours to make PLvl 100 so people will pretty much always be making progress no matter what.

I really don't agree with tying the MF/GF to the character, because that's a huge disincentive in running two different cLvl 60 characters. One that's PLvl 20 will have a huge 60% GF/MF advantage over a PLvl 0 character. That relegates Alts to purely novelty play instead of a change of pace. :(

I think all of the patch changes will make full Act clears dramatically more profitable short- and long-term which I like.

I think I would lean towards having Paragon Levels all set to 0 to start rather than have them applied retroactives. While I would like my previous work to be rewarded, I think it will be much more fun to see every player racing up Paragon Levels like with a D2 Ladder reset. Everyone can also start out anew and choose which cLvl 60 character they want to push for Paragon. The characters that can tear through mobs are going to do much better building Paragon Levels than the ones that are built for Elite hunting. That said, Elites with 5 NV are still nearly guaranteed to drop that rare item so killing Elites are the best short-term time investment. It will produce an interesting dynamic in skill selection now, too, since trash mob farming will have to be balanced with still being able to kill Elite packs. Love that effect.

Anyone banking on MF + Stat gear to rise in value post-patch is going to be very disappointed as MF will now be a trash affix starting at the midrange iLvL 62 gear level. Sorry speculators.

I think of all the changes, this is the one that will bring back players if those first few Paragon Levels come relatively quickly. I plan to combine that with filling out my achievements, too, searching for those last few random dungeons I haven't discovered yet in areas that are inconvenient for running Elite packs.

I'm really, really liking how all of these patch changes are fitting together and I think it's going to make for a fairly new Inferno (SC) playing experience.
Posted by Member Khan on 8/20/12 10:00 AM #6
Posts: 1195

I think MF might be viable for a bit since paragon increases MF and GF 3% with each Plvl. If its not retroactive, people will still want some MF until they hit higher Plvls as they farm for new legendaries.
Posted by Member Venoom on 8/20/12 10:20 AM #7
Posts: 261

I thought up until now, max MF was 425% or so (so 350% without NV)
why did they nerf it? :(
that's the only thing bothering me with the new system.

very unnecessary nerf, no reason for it (except having a nice looking round number)
Posted by Member ecocd on 8/20/12 10:42 AM #8
Posts: 1059

@Khan I agree that MF will be viable for a while, but I think there were a lot of speculators betting on a big spike in MF + Stats gear that won't materialize so they'll be out 15% AH fee as well as any inflation that occurred over that period. Not the end of the world, but any negative return in speculating is a pretty big loss.

@Venoom, dropping the cap 50% from 350 to 300% isn't really a big nerf. The math says you're only going to be seeing 12.5% fewer Blues drop from white monsters at 300% than 350%: 450/400 - 1 = +12.5%. If you include your 5x NV stacks that drops to 10.5% fewer Blues. That's 1 in 8 monsters or 1 in 10 monsters that would've dropped a blue with 1.03 cap MF no longer drop a blue in 1.04. Since white monsters will be dropping blues and yellows at 4 times the rate they were before in Inferno, you won't be able to notice the difference in 425% and 375%. Only 24/7 bots will notice the difference in drops due to the new 1.04 MF cap.
Posted by Admin DHAdmin on 8/20/12 10:48 AM #9
Posts: 938

I really need to start waking up earlier so I can post the news as soon as its announced! But on topic the system is very interesting and for some reason this is my favorite part of all of it

The time to reach the upper Paragon levels approximates the long-term time investment required to get a level 99 character in Diablo II.


I am not sure how I feel about the MF/GF cap... perhaps I would not mind it as much if it were say 500 MF as that would keep MF/GF gear useful even at level 100. But then again with the huge leveling time I guess it's not an issue.

I wish Paragon levels had a few more rewards than just MF/GF and the minor buff to core stats. Regardless it looks like Blizzard is heading in the right direction and I am beyond excited for the future once PvP and everything else is out :)
Posted by Member ecocd on 8/20/12 11:09 AM #10
Posts: 1059

Posted by DHAdmin at 08/20/2012 10:48 AM

I wish Paragon levels had a few more rewards than just MF/GF and the minor buff to core stats.

You clearly missed the special border you get around your character portrait. ;)
Posted by Member shniggies on 8/20/12 11:12 AM #11
Posts: 909

so... a few questions
1. why introduce paragon levels at all? why not just chars go to 99? it seems to be the same thing since stats are increasing as well
2. 300MF cap, not including NV. But does that account for your gear? It seems like it doesn't from reading the posts, but i'm still a little confused
Posted by Member ecocd on 8/20/12 11:18 AM #12
Posts: 1059

@euggie
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head for Paragon Levels. First, is the ability to raise the cLvl cap in a future patch to open up new skills/runes separate from Paragon Levels. Second, is the confusion that it would cause to have MF/GF starting to increase at cLvl 61. Why 61? Why not 51? Why not 65? It's also not an obvious perk so people would confusingly find themselves with a mysterious 15% MF bonus when they reach cLvl 65.

I believe from the context of the article, MF Gear + Paragon Levels is capped at 300% MF. NV stacks on top of that for a max of 375% MF between Gear, Paragon, NV
Posted by Member baccarat0809 on 8/20/12 11:21 AM #13
Posts: 376

@euggie

My guess is an expansion pack is coming sometime within the next year. That expansion pack will not only have more char classes but also allow you to level up. They realize that a lot of peeps were pissed off about the level 60 cap so they put this in place.

IMO what they really need is a ladder - but they can probably wait a bit before they introduce that.

As for MF cap - you can get some from your gear - some from the NV stacks - and some from paragon .... either way, the cap will be 300 from EVERYTHING - instead of the 425 you can get now, which is 350 from gear and 75 from NV stack.
Posted by Member ecocd on 8/20/12 11:33 AM #14
Posts: 1059

Posted by baccarat0809 at 08/20/2012 11:21 AM

As for MF cap - you can get some from your gear - some from the NV stacks - and some from paragon .... either way, the cap will be 300 from EVERYTHING - instead of the 425 you can get now, which is 350 from gear and 75 from NV stack.

Not quite correct. From the article:
With the Paragon system in place, we’re capping Magic Find and Gold Find to 300% (before Nephalem Valor).

Nv stacks on top of the 300% MF cap. Overall, they're only dropping 50% MF from the 1.03 cap to the 1.04 cap.
Posted by Member Detski on 8/20/12 11:54 AM #15
Posts: 30

@euggie

Also, gear is not tied to Paragon levels. If they added actual levels, people would be wondering when the new gear is coming.
Posted by Member shniggies on 8/20/12 11:56 AM #16
Posts: 909

@ecocd @baccarat0809

thanks guys

i guess we'll have to wait and see... i've been working on getting through to act4 and probably spent over 500k on repairs alone o_O

hopefully with the new patch, i will see my first legendary drop? i think its quite odd i have yet to have a single set/legendary drop... even with low mf, in d2, you would see a ton of crap set and uniques drop...
Posted by Member shniggies on 8/20/12 11:57 AM #17
Posts: 909

Posted by Detski at 08/20/2012 11:54 AM

@euggie

Also, gear is not tied to Paragon levels. If they added actual levels, people would be wondering when the new gear is coming.


thats a good point... didn't think of that

so theoretically, if we went to 99, we would see lvl99 gear right? 5k dps one handed items anyone? does that mean they'll start adding HP to elites again?
Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 12:01 PM #18
Posts: 349

Posted by shniggies at 08/20/2012 11:56 AM

@ecocd @baccarat0809

thanks guys

i guess we'll have to wait and see... i've been working on getting through to act4 and probably spent over 500k on repairs alone o_O

hopefully with the new patch, i will see my first legendary drop? i think its quite odd i have yet to have a single set/legendary drop... even with low mf, in d2, you would see a ton of crap set and uniques drop...


My first 4 legendary drops all dropped without MF, apparently MF doesn't affect the drop rate of Legendaries but i have to say otherwise. Those 4 legendary drops were over a period of playing for about 300hours, only one was decent and worth keeping.

- Act3 with Barb, i think i was level 35 at the time?
- Act2 with barb while progressing through the act on inferno from a corpse
- Act1 Inferno with 5NV Stack but it was a junky level 53 or something from a corpse or chest, cant recall
- Yesterday, Act2 Gladiator Gloves from Goblin (using MF swap)
- Yesterday, Act2 Tal Rasha with MF Swap

Yesterday i started trying MF Swapping, with 250% MF (before nv stack) i found 2 legendaries (1 was a junk Gladiator Gloves and the other a Tal Rasha i found with @baldy and @buzzel)

You will find a legendary sooner or later but then realize the majority of them a rejunk anyway and just more of an achievement actually finding one than actually using one (unless you find a skull grasp or something from the nat's set)
Posted by Admin DHAdmin on 8/20/12 12:10 PM #19
Posts: 938

Here's a chart on the datamined values of how much EXP per paragon level -

http://media.diablofans.com/images/news/2012/august/patch/exp3.jpg
Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 12:32 PM #20
Posts: 349

Well, if that's anything to go by, that's a shitload of XP to get. I think Level 59 to 60 was what, 1.5mil or something XP?
Posted by Admin DHAdmin on 8/20/12 12:34 PM #21
Posts: 938

2.4 million ;p
Posted by Member gnawol on 8/20/12 12:36 PM #22
Posts: 349

oh yeah, i see the numbers there now from that datamined source :-P

It took me 22-23 hours to level a char from 0-60, i think 1hour alone for 59-60. That's a lot of mob killing to do there and i'm glad its that high so people wont hit Paragon level 100 within a week
Posted by Member Khan on 8/20/12 12:52 PM #23
Posts: 1195

So then a ruby in the helm will make this journey quicker?
Posted by Admin DHAdmin on 8/20/12 12:56 PM #24
Posts: 938

@Khan correct! Also the price of rubies is on the rise from an average of 14 million for a radiant star ruby to 22 million now...
Posted by Member Khan on 8/20/12 12:58 PM #25
Posts: 1195

Nice...money money money

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13 users posted in this thread: baccarat0809, Baldy, Buzzell, Detski, DHAdmin, ecocd, EEYAR, gnawol, Khan, LSOLive, shniggies, Undertaker, Venoom

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