Back in 1.03, I was labelled as an Act 1 Hero.

This is because with my tanky DH, I just kept farming Act 1 with max MF. Act 2 was not that efficient for me, and Act 3 was far too difficult (which I later realised it is because my DPS wasn't high enough, haha).

In 1.03 the best set item can still drop in Act 1, unlike in 1.04 some legendaries and sets only drop in late Inferno acts.

So, max MF + low end gears ==> 1.03 Act 1 is the most efficient farming place for me.

Now in 1.05, I recently came across an interesting article from the D3 forum. The writer suggests to run Act 3 MP0 with max MF gears. I think maybe some of you might be interested in trying it out.

Some summary points:

- MP0 monsters are weakest in terms of HP and DMG. You can kill them much faster and you can avoid a few corpse runs. Unless you are already MF capped to 300, the bonus MF% (which will stack on top of the 300 cap) from higher MPs does not warrant the additional time needed to clear the act.

- Act 3 monsters are already Mlvl63 hence at MP0 you already have a chance of looting the best rolls in game.

- Bear in mind also you are missing out on the bonus % GF, % XP, % additional item from choosing MP0, but this is supposed to be balanced out by a quicker run at MP0.

- You can also try Keywarden with the little 5% chance to get the key.

I was originally running MP2 with MF% below the 300 cap. I did give this MP0 a try in Act 3, with my 300MF. What I noticed:

1) Monsters did melt ridiculously fast.
2) I didn't die to any affixes (2 careless death from the encounters with Fallen Maniacs).
3) The run was super quick, the pace was definitely faster. Frankly this is less tedious and less demanding for me, since I have limited time to 'farm' as a casual player.
4) I did find a legendary in that run. (On average I found at least one legendary/ set in my past ten runs anyway)
5) My gears are decent, I did feel bored and I am unlikely to try MP0 again.

What I am going to do:
- Continue to swallow my pride, but going to try Act 3 MP1 with max MF to see if this is a sweet spot for me.
- Then pushing from MP1 to MP2 to MP3 etc as I gain more MF and DPS, that farming higher MPs are not pulling me back on the time too much.

Some of you are UBER enough to farm higher MPs much efficient than at MP0, hence unless you wanna take a break you may not even want to bored yourself in MP0. Has anyone else tried this and any thoughts?

I tried "farming" A1 on MP10 today. My initial thoughts:

1) Much easier than before hotfix
2) Monster health is still high so you need to watch your NV stack timer. Some packs took me over 7 mins to complete. Can you say extra health/reflect damage/fire chain/frozen?
3) Legendary drops possible higher. Got a Zuni boot and that stupid grandfather whatever sword just in the Festerwing Woods map.
4) You will die. Don't sweat it.
5) You will have to pee during a long battle. This makes it more fun.

5) You will have to pee during a long battle. This makes it more fun.

If you were in a party, when you need to take a pee do you need to yell out: "Please, cover my pee!"

Ha! I use the ancient Prana Bindu techniques of the Bene Gesserit to overcome my pee.

Oh, and if you're a low dps tank like me 120k, forget about treasure goblins on mp10 solo.

Just to be clear: all monsters on MP 0 are ilvl 63 already? There's a big damage difference between MP 0 and MP 1. I just want to make sure that's correct.

I was actually running some MF gear on MP 0, but overall, I prefer to run max power gear on MP 3. There's really not much of a difference at that point because you will 1-2 shot normal mobs anyway and the difference in killing elites might be like, 5-10 seconds. I sacrifice a little bit of MF, but gain the EXP/key drop bonuses. To give you an idea of the difference:

-With MF-
MF gear: about 125 MF on 4 pieces (including swap to Topaz)
Base MF: 141 from Paragon, 23 from Follower = 164
5 NV stack: 75
Total MF with MF gear on MP 0 (5 NV): 364
EXP bonus: 75
DPS: 100k unbuffed, 35k HP

-Without MF-
MF gear: 0
Base MF: 164
Total MF on MP 3 (5 NV): 314
EXP bonus: 136
DPS: 120k unbuffed, 46k HP

I only gain 50 MF. This translates to only a 12% increase in better items. Considering both runs take nearly the same length of time, I'd rather have the EXP. I've already noticed that MP 4 is inefficient though, so I certainly think MP 0 at sub 100k DPS might be a valid way to go.

No, monsters are only ilvl 63 on mplvl one or higher.

In act 3 & 4 monsters are level 63 on MP0 I am pretty sure.

That's what I think the OP of the thread is saying why Act 3 is good even with MP0, unlike Act 1 or Act 2 where monster level is below 63 (hence affecting the drop quality unless you do it with MP1 and above which will boost their levels to 63).

I was actually running some MF gear on MP 0, but overall, I prefer to run max power gear on MP 3. There's really not much of a difference at that point because you will 1-2 shot normal mobs anyway and the difference in killing elites might be like, 5-10 seconds. I sacrifice a little bit of MF, but gain the EXP/key drop bonuses.

Currently Act 3 MP2 run (pre-hotfix, I haven't tried a game after hotfix) is a little long for me over 1 hour, and without max MF. When I was running MP0 with max MF the other day I was happy that the whole run/whole act is fast, far within 1 hour c.f. over 1 hour in MP2. The kills are faster and there are less kiting, and I was happy that I am capped. When I try MP1 tonight, I should be happier since I believe I should be able to do MP1 efficiently with max MF 300 too (especially after hotfix), hence I would enjoy the additional 25% MF on top of the 300 cap and 75 NV cap. I hope for me MP1 is not much difference with MP0 when I have max MF gears on both MPs. Although I can handle MP2 I think it will slow me down a bit, and I might have to sacrifice 1 or 2 pieces of MF gears to make it more efficient (<-- might as well go MP1/MP0 for efficiency sake).

The goal of Monster Power was always to provide more of a challenge, not necessarily increase payoffs accordingly. I kind of thought everyone had already figured out the MP0 Act 3 thing on the PTR already. The key is that MP raises your MF above the 300% cap. If you're running 300% MF and play on MP1-MP10, you'll get your 300% base, 75% NV, and MP bonus.

If you're not hitting the 300% MF cap and the only thing you want to do is farm, then the best strategy by far, is to get as close to the cap as possible and play MP0 Act 3. That's how it's been since day one of 1.05 and that's the way it will stay for a long time. As you point out @douvinsky, that's pretty boring though. :)

I just do MP10 runs to break the monotony and feel some pain. I like to see something that can be done with the right gear. Also its neat to see the literal diarrhea of blue items on the ground. So many that sometimes targeting becomes difficult.

Posted by Khan at 10/24/2012 10:26 AM

I just do MP10 runs to break the monotony and feel some pain. I like to see something that can be done with the right gear. Also its neat to see the literal diarrhea of blue items on the ground. So many that sometimes targeting becomes difficult.

Ahhh...just like the good ol' cow level days. Good times...

Posted by douvinsky at 10/23/2012 09:52 PM

5) You will have to pee during a long battle. This makes it more fun.

If you were in a party, when you need to take a pee do you need to yell out: "Please, cover my pee!"

@phamalot during our uber run yesterday said "gotta change diaper" and it just reminded me of that south park episode lol
i hope its not your diaper!

Update:

I now ran it with MP2 (max 300 MF gears as the raw base before MF bonus).
No big deal for my 80k+ monk to kill through MP2, hence MP2 > MP0 in Act 3. There may be a few seconds delay in killing elites compared to MP0, but compensated by bonus MF, GF, items, XP.
Ultimate MF% = 300 + 75 NV + 50 MP2 = 425%.

I don't think I wanna try MP3 yet, until I feel comfortable to spend some gold to upgrade my gears.

I think my next upgrade should be my inna helm - perhaps switch the GF/MF combo (without sacrificing 300 MF cap) to %Life/ Life Regen with more Dex / Vital, or grab one with bonus dmg to Sweeping Wind. What do you think?

@Metta
I have been switching my offhand to try out various combo, I think I finally feel comfortable with the LS instead of LoH in my offhand (in MP2 at least).

Posted by shniggies at 10/25/2012 03:32 PM

@phamalot during our uber run yesterday said "gotta change diaper" and it just reminded me of that south park episode lol i hope its not your diaper!

my lips are sealed

So at what point do people think it's worthwhile to switch to a MF helm from an EXP helm? I'm only plvl 20 so I know the EXP is still #1 priority. Is there ever a tipping point at which the 25%-29% MF from a Topaz is worth more since it frees up another piece of equipment from requiring MF?

Once you're at 271% MF, that additional 29% is only an 11% relative increase in MF. Add in 5 NV stacks and a very conservative 50% MP2 bonus and now the radiant star topaz is only add a 7% relative increase in MF (and even that probably doesn't scale linearly with set and legendary finds). Even with a Hellfire ring equipped, another on your follower, 5 stacks NV, 20% MP2 bonus, an exp gem in the helmet is still a 12% relative increase in experience gained.

For that matter, when is it simply not worth wearing a Hellfire Ring?

My personal take is that +EXP will ALWAYS trump +MF. My reasoning is as follows.

The higher your P.Level, the stronger (increase to stats, GF, and MF) your character gets. Every monster you kill while doing various inferno runs WILL yield experience. Even though it's a slow process, it's guaranteed.

To notice the effect of changing your MF slightly would require hundreds of runs, perhaps even over a thousand; even then, you might not have statistical evidence that your extra 30% MF is producing a significant increase in legendaries, sets, and 6-prop rares. At best, you'd be 95% confident the extra MF is "working."

I would have to know the exact effect of MF in the game to give you a statistical analysis of relative values of EXP v. MF.

Until then, the bottom line is personal preference. If you feel like the extra MF is "working," then go for it. This is a game after all, and we always want to have fun, feel OP, and see tons of loot. :)

For me, while the sparklies are nice to see, I like guarantees. And I can assure you that in games where RNG is king, spotting a guarantee is RARE. Happy hunting!

I have been a believer in high / max MF since day 1. My priority is not to gain P levels quickly, but to enjoy every run. I enjoy each run when I start by clicking the details button, it shows my MF = 300 + 25 x MP levels ;P. I feel that the early P levels are fast to gain anyway. I heard at later P levels the gem difference results in 9 P levels difference (ie a player with XP gem will reach P100 when a player without reach P91 (9 levels = 27%MF difference, might as well run the levels with MF gem if you have not maxed MF).

So, my personal preference is that I will keep using my MF gem until it is no longer required to hit the 300 cap, upon when I will switch to a +%life gem so that I can re gear other pieces for DPS and takes on higher MP levels with ease.

Again, just my personal preference. It is up to your priority in this game. @ecocd your priority seems to be fine - to gain p levels quickly (even quicker that is). If you believe in max MF as I do (whether fallacy or not), it may now help with putting MF gem. For me, I might be the minority which will not use +XP gem (rather prefer +%life gem at my current levels at my current priority ;p)

@douvinsky I can't believe I forgot about the +% life gems. I've been having survivability issues lately, particularly with my MF gear. I wonder how much difference +15% Life would make. I, too, believe in having fun and I certainly have more fun when I'm not dying.

@phamalot

I favours risks.
I am skipping guarantees, to increase the chances that an RNG is good :)

]

Posted by ecocd at 10/26/2012 12:18 PM

@douvinsky I can't believe I forgot about the +% life gems. I've been having survivability issues lately, particularly with my MF gear. I wonder how much difference +15% Life would make. I, too, believe in having fun and I certainly have more fun when I'm not dying.

Haha. Survivability was at one point a big issue for me, I have been trying out different gears combo to keep my HP up (without sacrificing my MF gem!). When I reach a stage where I can switch to %life gem (won't be long, just a few more p levels and I can drop the MF gem while still at 300 cap), I will get more DPS on my other gears and take on higher MPs.

I'm actually pretty weird. When I first started paragon leveling (when the patch first came out), I actually used Topaz instead of Ruby. I did this because my MF was low from having no PL MF bonus. The lower your base MF, the more imperative it is to raise it. When I reached PL level 20, I switched back to Ruby. This was simply a personal preference for me; I was able to swap out some MF gear for DPS so I could really mow down mobs more quickly, thus seeing more of the EXP bonus. At level 40, I switched back to Topaz. So yeah, I switch back and forth between them every 20 levels or so to exercise the bonus of the lagging phase.

I think with MP and the Hellfire Ring, it has pretty much nullified any difference between the two gems. One still gives you a tiny bonus short term, while the other gives you a tiny bonus for long term. But you can easily increase MP or use the hellfire ring to minimize the difference further. That being said, I still think Ruby is better not just because you get long term gains, stats, etc, but because 31% bonus exp is harder to obtain (MP 0 to MP 3 difference) as opposed to 31% MF (MP 0 to MP 2 gives you 50%).

Posted by Metta at 10/26/2012 01:27 PM

I'm actually pretty weird. When I first started paragon leveling (when the patch first came out), I actually used Topaz instead of Ruby. I did this because my MF was low from having no PL MF bonus. The lower your base MF, the more imperative it is to raise it. When I reached PL level 20, I switched back to Ruby. This was simply a personal preference for me; I was able to swap out some MF gear for DPS so I could really mow down mobs more quickly, thus seeing more of the EXP bonus. At level 40, I switched back to Topaz. So yeah, I switch back and forth between them every 20 levels or so to exercise the bonus of the lagging phase.

I think with MP and the Hellfire Ring, it has pretty much nullified any difference between the two gems. One still gives you a tiny bonus short term, while the other gives you a tiny bonus for long term. But you can easily increase MP or use the hellfire ring to minimize the difference further. That being said, I still think Ruby is better not just because you get long term gains, stats, etc, but because 31% bonus exp is harder to obtain (MP 0 to MP 3 difference) as opposed to 31% MF (MP 0 to MP 2 gives you 50%).

You are not weird :P. I can understand why you made your choice.

One thing fun in this game is that I can always juggle between different gears/ gems to gear my toon differently, to meet different priority at different time. e.g. without MF gem I would have used another trifecta gloves with +MF, or a boots with less vital but more +MF, things like that.

Little thoughts that went through my mind when I was deciding on the gems:
1) XP gem : Good to gain these few levels fast so that I can say bye bye to one of my MF gears and replace it with a higher DPS gear
2) MF gem : I need the cap! +25%MF gem = increase in 1 MP level. With +25%MF gem I can choose to do MP2 instead of MP3 hence a faster run at max MF cap (overall efficiency consideration)
3) %Life gem : Once I get rid of 2), I can rebalance my overall gears and take on higher MP levels, yeah
4) GF gem : I used to farm gold in Hell level....maybe one day when I am bored I will try to max GF and see how high are the piles of gold in inferno MP xlevels (currently I only see 2k+ at most)