So I've played a bit of 1.05 on PTR (finally with full gear, although I tend to get disconnect errors a lot). While there are some things I think need to be modified, overall, I'm digging it.

Class specific stuff: The biggest change to my class (monk) is the Seize the Initiative change (50% of your dex becomes armor as opposed to 100% before). While I thought at first I would despise it, I'm actually liking this change. It really makes the other two defensive passives (Guardian's Path and Resolve) viable and strong in different ways. For me, at about 2400 dex, Guardian's Path and StI give me about the same EHP. There's a difference though: StI is going to make me less prone to spike damage, but I will get hit more often. GP will give me inhuman dodge, but I will be more prone to spike damage. Resolve (even with the slight nerf) crushes both in EHP, but the key point here is that I have to be doing damage to benefit from it. If I've got my tornadoes going and I'm blasting mobs, yes, my EHP is good. But the moment I stop hitting and I'm just walking down the street, I can get hurt pretty bad by some skeleton arrows. So it's a tradeoff and I think it's pretty balanced.

Monster Power: My only gripe with this right now is that it's not really balanced. Beyond 5 or 6 (at least for me), it's actually detrimental to increase MP. They can do one of two things: lower the progressive increases of HP on mobs. Or, and what would be really cool, is to increase the MF/EXP boosts PROGRESSIVELY. If they are going to increase the HP progressively, they should increase MF progressively. Something like:

MP 1: 10% MF
MP 4: 75% MF
MP 7: 230% MF
MP 9: 405% MF
MP 10: 595% MF

These numbers might seem insane, but really, the ability to not only survive an elite pack for MINUTES (I have 110k DPS base and it takes me minutes to kill an elite pack on MP 10), but also have some semblance of DPS so one pack doesn't take an hour should be rewarded. If you're fighting on MP 9 or MP 10, you deserve gigantic bonuses in MF because at this point, your gear probably requires 100s of millions of gold to upgrade. I guarantee the only people who would be on MP9/10 have uber gear and are only interested in legendaries/set items; the high MF would allow them to see more of those regularly. EXP would work the same way; they increase progressively atm, but I think they need to be buffed dramatically so that at the very least, your EXP/hour is constant.

Jewelry: I found an amulet with 100% (!) CD. I can't imagine how much it would be worth if it had CC (it also has +23-55 dmg and 163 dex). I don't know the exact numbers, but I think rings can roll up to 6% CC (4.5% before) and 50% CD (30%? before). Amulets 100% CD (65%? before) and 10% CC (8.5%? before). Even though these buffs make old jewelry worth a lot less, I think it's a good thing. It gives more flexibility to builds (stack tremendous DPS on jewelry, make other gear more defensive) and it raises the upper limits on DPS (for those elites on high MP levels).

I can't comment on the ubers or Infernal Machine; I haven't encountered them yet. Overall, I like the patch. I think MP, while flawed atm, has the potential to be a long term source of replay value (besides PvP). The pace of each farming run really changes through different MP levels; even though it's the same damn level over and over again, it FEELS different because of the pacing. At higher levels, I have to kite, move slower, be more aware of my HP. It's really the best they can do in a pure PvE game and I dig it.

I'd love to hear any other comments about 1.05. Especially from other classes.

MP is a step in the right direction, but I think they could do much more with it than merely make the enemies hit harder and absorb more damage.

I repeatedly state that the main problem with Blizzard's nerf methodology is that they are altering the wrong side of the scale. The balance which a game presents has one side with the player's abilities and the other with how the threats interact with those abilities. Therefore, rather than continuously alter the player's abilities and skills, what they should consider doing is altering how the monsters function. Rather than MP10 having monsters which do the same exact thing as those in MP0 but just take longer to kill, they should add in new resistances and monster abilities to present newer challenges. In MP10, maybe bring back Invulnerable. Have Fire Chain and Molten bring a 75% resistance to freezing. Introduce an affix called "windbreaker" or "ironside" or something to convey an enemy which has high resistance to wind-based skill damage.

As it stands, unless there are distinctively improved drops in each MP10 run, I fear that the novelty will wear off rather quickly and few people will ever want to work up to running MP10 comfortably if they can just coast through MP5 right now and yield approximately the same results in terms of drops.

Also, in speaking for my main interest and concern in Wizard - I think that the new jewelry values might be another reason why the ET and Meteor proc nerfing won't be quite so bad. Most posts I see about the new jewelry and the proc nerfs don't put these two points together.

But forget I said anything like that. I'm totally going to be using Wave of Force and Blizzard and Hydra and kite MP10 like Charlie Brown, because that's the new OP build.

@xpoferens

I love your suggestions. I'm pretty sure the odds of Blizzard doing something like that are like 0% though. Too easy to just change HP/damage.

Posted by Metta at 09/29/2012 05:17 PM

@xpoferens

I love your suggestions. I'm pretty sure the odds of Blizzard doing something like that are like 0% though. Too easy to just change HP/damage.

It might come someday, Immunities in Hell in diablo 2 took what? 4 years to roll out?

Posted by Ammostiel at 09/29/2012 04:33 PM

Also, in speaking for my main interest and concern in Wizard - I think that the new jewelry values might be another reason why the ET and Meteor proc nerfing won't be quite so bad. Most posts I see about the new jewelry and the proc nerfs don't put these two points together.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Sure, our proc rates are getting nerfed, but it'll be easier to get our crit chance percentage higher than we can currently, which could make the builds work just as fine.

Posted by Ammostiel at 09/29/2012 04:33 PM

But forget I said anything like that. I'm totally going to be using Wave of Force and Blizzard and Hydra and kite
MP10 like Charlie Brown, because that's the new OP build.

Me too. I agree.

I'm a bit disappointed in how they have gone with MP. Monster health increases multiplicatively, so yes, it just increases exponentially and in addition to that, damage also increases. I'm not sure if the health and damage are increases or just multiplied by the monster's base (do monsters at MP 1 hit over 2x harder already or just 14% harder?), but the rewards for killing higher MP mobs are still the same: paltry. MF and XP are still added bonuses, so their benefits are fairly minimal. The bonus item seems pretty lame; it COULD be a set/legendary, but more than likely, it will be something like a Valaska or a Zischagge.

Also, if they're going to make drop frequency the same across all acts, what is the point of running Act 3 (or even Act 2)? Unless they're going to scale back damage for the higher Acts, everyone would agree that Act 2 is MUCH harder than Act 1 and Act 3 is MUCH harder than Act 2. Unless I'm missing something, they're making an elite zombie pack in Act 1 have the same rewards as an elite Demonic Tremor pack in Act 3... which is kinda, stupid.

They've moved all monsters up to mlvl 63 on MP1+ so Act 1 monsters are no longer a pushover even on MP1 compared to MP0. The Keywardens are the reason to run Act 3 and Act 4 which is going to be enough for most elite players to continue to do at least some runs on Act 3 and Act 4. Given the low elite density in Act 4, people are going to be clearing half that act just to get to 5 NV.

Given the Northern Highlands and Warden/Butcher in Act 1 and the Vault of Assassins in Act 2, it's going to be hard to justify doing any other farming runs, regardless of the difficulty of Acts 3 and 4.

So I thought the same thing. So I just wanted to see some of the numbers compared, based on probably old data but this is the best I could do at this time...

For example:
Dark Skeletal Archer (Normal) Act I
Level HP Damage
MLVL 0 19-32K 9K
MLVL 1 29-48K 10K
MLVL 5 121-204K 17K
MLVL 10 653K-1100K 33K

Dark Skeletal Bowman (Normal) Act III
MLVL 0 73-122K 57K

So in my estimate regarding HP to MLVL: 4 is the same as 0 when comparing Act I vs. Act III, but what really stands out is that even at MLVL 10 Act I monsters don't deal anywhere the damage a MLVL 0 in Act III does. With drops not matteri which act you are in, I can't see a reason to leave act I when 1.0.5 comes out.

Where did you find those numbers? Did you actually test those on the PTR yourself?

I still don't think Blizzard would go through all the trouble of making MP without evening up the acts so I think there must be something else going on.

@whirlingd17

Thanks for that. Those are useful numbers.

I'm hoping Blizzard realizes this and hotfixes it or makes some stealth changes before the actual patch. The only reason to run Act 3 presently is because of the slightly higher ilvl 61-63 drop rate and slightly higher exp. If they even drops across the board, then there is ZERO reason to do anything outside of Act 1. Increases in MP make monsters exponentially stronger, so the effect of MP is amplified when you move up acts.

@ecocd and @metta

Those numbers are based off of the % in the most recent Blizzard post explaining monster power. Just a note that the Bowman in act III's numbers are at MLVL 0 in my post. At MLVL 5 he would look like HP 446-780K and Damage at 110K, so there's no problems in direct comparison @ the same MLVL. I don't know if Blizzard has any intention to make all of the acts in Inferno to be the same challenge level even if the drop rate is the same? Just don't know? Could someone check the PTR?

If they even up the acts in inferno by drop rate why would you leave act I? If they don't even up the acts why would you leave act I as well?

Blizzard's latest post clearly says all drop rates are the same in all of the Acts. Did I miss something else?

@Anuiran

Can you explain your logic on why Act 3 is still by far the best? Based on @whirlingd17 's estimates, MP 0 in Act 3 is about the same as MP 4 for HP. With ilvl drops being equal across the board, you would have the same chance to roll ilvl in every act. The difference being, with MP 4, you have 100% bonus MF/GF and 26% bonus item as well as 45% bonus exp. I think the key difference is the damage difference (MP 10 in Act 1 still dealing less damage than MP 0 in Act 3). It might not be efficient to farm at MP 10 (unless you have massive DPS) even in Act 1, but certainly at lower MP, given the HP differences, it would be better to farm in Act 1? Example:

Act 1 elite on MP 4 (skeletal archer for example) will have the same HP as Act 3 elite on MP 0 (demonic tremor for example). Demonic tremor will hit MUCH harder. Additionally, loot will be worse on average (because of lack of 100% MF bonus).

Thanks.

I'm going to be doing act two runs in 1.0.5 mainly because I like going through Vault of the Assassin and the other places in it more than act one and three.

@Anuiran

I am just going by the data presented in whirlingd17's post. He showed that the archer in Act 1 on MP 10 did 33k damage compared to a bowman in Act 3 on MP 0 that did 57k damage.

Monster density is higher in Act 3, but you could also just keep restarting the Act. It's not hard to get 5 NV stacks, which would be the only penalty for restarting (you can do festering woods/leoric's manor and get 5 stacks in like 5-10 minutes).

The drop rate is irrelevant; magic find affects the quality of the item, not quantity. 100% additive isn't exactly mind-blowing, but it's certainly something to consider if we make the assumption that efficiency farming MP 4 in Act 1 = efficiency farming MP 0 in Act 3.

It would probably be apropos if someone was able to perform a full run of 1 and 3 and give us all the metrics (time spent, exp gained, rares found, etc), but that's a lot of work. Either way, I'm still not seeing it...

AH ok, thank you for explaining that! That makes sense to me. Either way, I'd still love to see comparisons of a full run. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the time atm. Maybe sometime this weekend... :).

Good information.
I was originally thinking of farming Act II when 1.05 hits. Guess I will reconsider.

8 hour maintenance scheduled for Tuesday AM! If that isn't Patch 1.05, I'm going to cry. Get your auction items ready boys and girls. Let's see if that 1200 dps Windforce can get me more than 50,000 gold...

I may switch to a Barb for 1.0.5...Certain abilities of that class are attractive for farming and it appears cost per dps/survivability are the most reasonable.

@ecocd
Do you mean existing items are expected to devalue to a large extent ?

I meant right now, everyone is lucky to get anything for their items, because no one is playing or buying anything. I know I'm not really interested in playing until 1.0.5 is released and I doubt I'm alone so I'm hoping the market will pick up.